Hi,
here is a cature of Roger Helmer's weblog at 13:00hrs. 30-Aug-2011
See: http://rogerhelmermep.wordpress.com/2011/08/29/true-believers
True Believers
August 29, 2011, 7:46 am
Filed under: Uncategorized
LikeIt’s worth reading Garrison Keillor’s hilarious book “Lake Wobegone Days”, if only for the very perceptive chapter on the small protestant denomination in which he was raised. I recognise the scenario, as I was raised in a rather similar one. Such groups are riven with factionalism and schism. Each faction has some slightly different (but vital) alternative interpretation of Holy Writ, and the divisions become smaller and smaller, even within families, until you have the impression that each adherent is convinced that he is the only true believer, and that all the others are suspect one way or another.
Sadly, the Eurosceptic movement in Britain is rather similar. Too many eurosceptics spend their time sniping at each other, rather than turning their guns on the real enemy, which in this case is Brussels.
I was alerted by my indomitable press officer Neelam Cartmell to a web-site called Autonomous Mind, which appears to be of the UKIP persuasion, and has a host of contributors eager to attack Conservative Eurosceptics who clearly (in their terms) are not Eurosceptics at all, but part of a great Tory plot to burnish sceptical credentials whilst pursuing an integrationist policy. Autonomous Mind (AM), by the way, is said to “disdain Nigel Farage” — illustrating my point about factionalism and schism.
AM had published an “Open letter to Roger Helmer MEP”, which had attracted some angry comment. But at least Mr. AM invited me to respond — so I did. You may be amused by some of my replies.
Bellvue alleged that Roger Helman (sic) MEP was a cowardly shit. “I recognise neither the name Roger Helman, nor the appellation “cowardly shit”, so I think you must be engaged in a different conversation”.
Brian H asserted that all politicians were liars: “Unlike George Washington, I would not claim that I’d never told a lie. But I would say that I have never knowingly dissembled about any political question: indeed if you had followed my career you would know that I am in constant trouble for too much straight talking”.
David Phipps insisted we all knew that repatriation (of powers from Brussels) would never happen: I certainly don’t “know that repatriation will never happen”. There is a head of steam building up in the parliamentary party. It has been commented on by, amongst others, Tim Montgomerie, who has his ear to the ground. We now have the European Union Act which prescribes a referendum in specific circumstances. Those circumstances could arise with the proposed new arrangements for a euro-debt-union. I don’t think Cameron can move at this stage without upsetting the Coalition — and therefore the fiscal recovery plan. But he could do so before the next election.
Jeremy Poynton asks “Exactly who do you represent?”. I think you mean “whom”. I represent about 4.2 million people in the East Midlands, and I have been elected top of the list on three successive occasions — ‘99, ‘04, ‘09. I think my democratic legitimacy probably exceeds that of most correspondents to AM.
Patrick Harris asks why politicians don’t sue the European Commission for breaches of EU law: I think your answer is that there is no realistic hope that the European Court of Justice would ever hand down a ruling opposed to European integration. A court action would be a huge waste of time and money. But of course if you think you have a case — there’s nothing to stop you bringing an action.
Jones “Do you at least agree that commentators on this blog have a point?”: Indeed. Many of the commentators have a point. But I’m not sure that they have a strategy.
Uncle Badger rants: “Antipathy to the EU is rife …. If you are not willing to represent that view….”. What do you imagine I have been doing for the last twelve years? I’ve been expressing my antipathy to the EU in blogs, newsletters, Tweets, (@RogerHelmerMEP), web-sites; press releases, books, DVDs; on radio and TV; in the Conservative Party and in the European parliament! You might check your facts before sounding off. And you might note my earlier comments: too many Eurosceptics spend their time attacking each other, not attacking Brussels.
AM is said to disdain Nigel Farage: Sorry to hear that you regard Nigel Farage with disdain. I have a lot of time for him. A good guy.
John Payne argues that European integration in the Conservative Party is driven by the Whips: Interested by your theory that EU integration is driven by the Whips. Last time I checked, the Chief Whip was Patrick McLoughlin MP — he’s on my patch and I certainly don’t see him as a fifth column for Brussels.
Finally, they ask, why do some eurosceptics in Westminster occasionally appear to support some integrationist measures? Is it better to seek to move the Conservative Party in a Eurosceptic direction over time (which implies some compromise with Party policy), or to make one grand kamikaze gesture which rules you out of the action ever after, even though it gains the applause of Autonomous Mind?
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17 Comments
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Roger, the main point is we’ve heard it all before. We are past the point of repatriating powers. We don’t believe it anymore. We want out. It’s quite simple.Comment by Sue August 29, 2011 @ 1:18 pm
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Reply[...] he has presented the exchanges of recent days on this blog to the readers of his blog. This is how Helmer introduces his reply to AM readers who left comments for him in the Open Letter thread: Sadly, the Eurosceptic movement [...]Pingback by Roger Helmer dismisses criticism and covers for faux Tory Eurosceptics « Autonomous Mind August 29, 2011 @ 2:50 pm
Comment by maureen gannon August 29, 2011 @ 3:20 pmSir you show the true arrogance that we the populace have grown to hate, you do not answer points made but as usual use emotive language to dismiss us as a fringe element,I am quite sure there are many politicos who would like to get t as strong a vote as there was for a poll held by You Gov in favour to get out of Europe.I never hear from any of you in power that convinces me what if any benefits we get from this fradulent body that the money we give could not be spent better here, in rebuilding this country.
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Comment by rjhmepRoger helmer MEP August 30, 2011 @ 5:52 amYou criticise me — that’s OK. I reply — that’s “arrogant”. Seems I just can’t win — except in elections.
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Comment by Richard North August 30, 2011 @ 9:02 amSomebody has to win the lottery as well … and the outcome is about as relevant. But if the ability to stuff your pockets with public dosh, and crow about it is a test of arrogance, you just passed the test.
Comment by Ross J Warren August 29, 2011 @ 3:53 pmSue, if there really is going to be a withdraw isn’t it time to be offering up the argued alternative. My impression is that this fight isn’t as clear cut as you suggest. The democratic process supports the E.U. far more than you might hope. Roger certainly isn’t the enemy, the road blocks are real and cannot be circumvented by any amount of wishful thinking. Getting ourselves out of this euro-black-hole isn’t going to be an overnight velvet revolution, it is going to be a long hard grind.
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Comment by Sue August 29, 2011 @ 7:27 pm
Ross, there will never be a right time to be offering a withdraw. Infact, the longer we leave this desperate situation, the less power and money we will have. I know Roger isn’t the enemy, I like Roger.
All we want is what we are entitled to. To be given a referendum. In or Out.
Anyone denying the British people that right, does not believe in the democratic process and any politician who advocates denying us that right, should not be in the British Government.
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Comment by rjhmepRoger helmer MEP August 30, 2011 @ 5:54 amThanks Sue. As I have said many times, I too want an In/Out referendum, and have been a main supporter of the Better Off Out campaign, through the Freedom Association. But I should also welcome a referendum on any other EU issue, if only to demonstrate the strength of feeling out there.
Comment by Goodnight Vienna August 29, 2011 @ 3:57 pmMr Helmer, I hope you’re not implying that Eustice & Co are the way forward for the Conservative Party? How many more years would you have us listen to the opinions of focus groups, MEPs and MPs – each saying how much they dislike the EU construct, how it is anti-democratic, how it has undermined our national sovereignty? They seem to think that’s enough and it will keep people happy for a while. Well, it isn’t and it won’t.
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Comment by Richard North August 29, 2011 @ 4:52 pmThe trouble is, Helmer, there is no such thing as a Tory Eurosceptic … merely Judas goats to lead the gullible into more integration.
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Comment by rjhmepRoger helmer MEP August 30, 2011 @ 5:55 amSorry, Richard, but there is indeed such a thing as a Tory eurosceptic. Me, for example.
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Comment by Richard North August 30, 2011 @ 9:05 amA contradiction in terms … which makes you the classic Judas goat, leading the gullible into the Tory fold. You go all the way with the sheep behind you … only to peel away at the last minute.
Comment by Greg_L-W. August 30, 2011 @ 11:59 amHi,
do you honestly believe your rhetoric and sales puff Helmer?
Richard is right.
Please tell us all of your actual achievements to extract these United Kingdoms from the malign grasp of The EU as a vassal region.
Minded of just how much in bribes and expenses you have achieved you do talk some total self serving venal twaddle!
But then again The Judas Goat is worth a great deal to the slaughter house.
Regards,
Greg_L-W.
Comment by TheBoilingFrog August 29, 2011 @ 4:53 pmI have to say that your comments Roger reaffirm my belief that should the UK exit the EU it will be no thanks to the Tory Party.
I’ve fought our membership for over 25 years, and I’ve heard the same old tired words year in year out – “that the Tory party is eurosceptic, that voting Tory will help more eurosceptic MPs into Westminister etc etc”. All of it has proven to be completely untrue of course.
The Tories have been the most europhile party in history; they took us in on a lie (supported by Thatcher) passed the Single European Act, shadowed the ERM which led to the 90s recession, joined the ERM, passed the Maastricht, gave away our armed forces in the mid 90s to the EU and so on.
In my experience, when we get a Tory Government EU integration gets faster and goes further – a point you acknowledged yourself Roger:
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/2011/06/by-rogerhelmermep-eu-assurances-overturned-in-weeks.html
Put simply the Tory party wants more EU – its actions prove this time and time again whatever their weasel words try to suggest otherwise. A vote for the Tories is a vote for more EU integration. And I want no part of it.
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Comment by Derek August 29, 2011 @ 8:20 pmThe main point that Roger makes is actually spot on. We eurosceptics are a divide bunch, rather like those in the Life Of Brian – The Judean Front and the Front of Judea. If only a miracle would occur and we could be brought together into one strong organisation. Today we have several different petitions for a referendum on “In Or Out”. UKIP in particular is famous for the splits which have dogged it more or less from its inception. If all sceptics joined their local Conservative Party, they could have real influence. There are only two parties that can get us out of the EU, and of the two, I still think the Conservatives are the more likely.
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Comment by Richard North August 29, 2011 @ 9:09 pmI think our main problem is that the term “eurosceptic” has no precise definition, although I have always taken it to mean someone who wants to leave the EU. As such, we have a situation where many people who call themselves eurosceptics are not … and have a different agenda.
If, however, the essential definition requires a determination to leave the EU, then membership of the Conservative Party is incompatible with being a eurosceptic.
Further, it is not wise to assume that withdrawal will be achieved through or by a political party. Most fundamental changes are driven by movements, outside the party political machinery, with the political parties reacting to outside pressure rather than initiating the changes.
As such, it is important that eurosceptics should not compromise by being members of any parties which, quite clearly, do not share their values.
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Comment by maureen gannon August 29, 2011 @ 8:52 pmWhy should we have had to think about forming a party, I was niave, [along with many others] enough to believe Mr Chamelon, that we would be given a vote on any likely- hood of more sovereignty being lost, and yet we are not being given one on the transaction tax ,or the fact that the fraudelent body that rules us from Brussels wants an Integrated maritime policy, that England is being regionalised at the behest of europe via the ‘We are all in it together localism bill,any of those should give us the promised referendum I admit to being duped , the man is slick of tongue much like the snake oil sellers in the wild west . well he won’t suck me in again and there are many like me .
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Hi,
the true looters are the very politicians who draw their huge bribes (the pretend it is a salary for work when they do none of consequence!), fiddle their expenses, defend their drinking chums when caught.
Look at the serried ranks of bloated over paid Local Government parasites, QUANGO chiefs and Government advisers (brothers in law etc.) and meeeja consultants.
These are the true looters OUR-ENEMY-WITHIN whilst yet more serried ranks of Judges, politicians, vicars, teachers, BBC staff, social service workers and the like who when convicted AND FOUND GUILTY of child abuse walk free!
Is the abuse of children nothing more than a perk of Government employment?
Even the likes of Roger Helmer might care to tell us all what actual achievements he has to his name as a Politician, in return for the many £Millions he has accepted as funding/bribes from the scam.
Regards,
Greg_L-W.
Comment by Greg_L-W. August 30, 2011 @ 3:59 am
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Hi,
this is of course the chap who defended Tom Wise and his criminality, publicly attacking me for my temerity in exposing the fraud and embezzling by his drinking chum. Just as did UKIP leadership in ever more dishonest terms – Nigel Farage even lied on TV to protect Tom Wise and himself.
Where does Patriotism enter into such self interest?
Some may remember when drinking in a pub in Belgium, with a young girl from The NoTW, that Roger Helmer was filmed seeking ways to have his home relocated in mapping terms so that he could claim even more expenses.
This may be the practice within the many globalist corporations for whom he worked prior to moving to politics!
He even admits to 3 terms as an MEP when we have seen not one inch of movement to the exit, but a great deal of self enrichment by the likes of Roger Helmer seemingly with his chums Farage, Tom Wise, Daniel Hannan – all too willing to act as The Judas Goat.
It is hard to differentiate between the levels of betrayal of the huge majority of our MPs and that of almost all of our MEPs and minded of how little they have achieved it is clearly a grossly overpaid job with absolutely no ethics and less integrity required.
Sad that so many lives have been given in defence of our liberty and a huge amount of faith has been placed in our MPs and MEPs who almost to a man seem to have betrayed these United Kingdoms.
The great tragedy is the huge amount of lives this will cost in the wars of disassociation that are increasingly inevitable because of OUR-ENEMY-WITHIN
Regards,
Greg_L-W.
Comment by Greg_L-W. August 30, 2011 @ 4:06 am
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Comment by maureen gannon August 30, 2011 @ 9:21 amSorry Roger , Yes you do win but then you must admit there are more who do not vote than do, and winning a seat can often mean the area is traditional to a certain party,
I now feel disenfranchised and dissalusioned, I will still go to the voting booth as I know women died for me to do so, and not to be given the label apathetic which I am not, but it will be a spoilt paper untill politico’s learn not just to listen but to hear. what we are saying.
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Hi,
Ms. Gannon is right but also overlooks the skills of The Judas Goat who can dupe the sheep to lead them into the slaughter house.
The goat is well rewarded for betraying the sheep.
We need only look at the proliferation of petitions to see how the Judas Goats will act to seek to undermine the efficacy of a petition on behalf of their real masters viz. Dan Hannan.Mark Glendenning’s copy cat petition when they couldn’t run the original one.
UKIP’s petition out of spite when Nikki Sinclaire’s was having such success.
UKIP launches petitions but has NEVER delivered save it seems money into the accounts of the few!
Now we have a Tory spoiler for the Tory BOO campaign!
The Tories like Labour will tell ANY lie to stay in place they even surrendered power to our competitors/enemies The EEC in return for the pretence of retaining power/income!
Westminster is nothing more than an EU QUANGO.
Like the directors of QUANGOs overpaid as part of the Kleptocracy and of no meaningful value.
The sickening lies of the politicians and their parasites in the pretence they work for us! What unmitigated balderdash!
But The Judas Goat is well rewarded as OUR-ENEMY-WITHIN
Regards,
Greg_L-W.
Comment by Greg_L-W. August 30, 2011 @ 11:54 am
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"In politics, stupidity is not a handicap."
Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)
Regards,
Greg L-W.
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